TheCzarsHussar Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 58 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: spartan You know, at the period where Sekiro takes place, the descendants of the Spartans were living in the mountains of Greece and being the ballsiest bastards by constantly harassing the Ottomans with hit and run bandit shit. Ironically these guys were way more badass than the Spartans ever were. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 1 hour ago, BigBossBalrog said: Once when the Wolf was starving, his father wordlessly handed him a rice ball. It was astoundingly delicious. There is an interesting parallel here between Owl/Wolf and the Sculptor/Emma. In both cases, an older Shinoni found a starving orphan on the battlefield, then gave them rice and took them to safety. Big difference is that Owl took Wolf under his wing to be raised as a killer, while the Sculptor gave Emma to more responsible hands to be raised as a healer. Interesting that the one who became Shura was the one with enough compassion to pass the child along. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 24 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: You know, at the period where Sekiro takes place, the descendants of the Spartans were living in the mountains of Greece and being the ballsiest bastards by constantly harassing the Ottomans with hit and run bandit shit. Ironically these guys were way more badass than the Spartans ever were. And on the other side of the world, the settlement of America is about to begin. Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 hour ago, The Good Doctor said: Owl is an interesting character to juxtapose against the game’s themes of stagnation and immortality. Despite pursuing it, you could argue that his story represents the counter to it. Growth, progress, passing of the torch, and accepting death when your time is up. Reveal hidden contents He is characterized as the ultimate survivor, willing to cross any line to keep breathing. And immortality via the Dragon Curse is the ultimate means of survival at any cost, so it’s totally in line with his character to pursue it. However, it gets hammered home again and again that immortality is a curse, not a blessing, and that those who suffer it are doomed to lose everything, wither, and even lose themselves with time. Basically every FromSoft game makes the point that immortality means stagnation, and stagnation leads to corruption festering. This is best highlighted through Hanbei the Undying, who begs us to grant him death the moment he sees we have the Mortal Blade. Most immortal beings we put down have long since become sad, bug infested, shadows of their former selves with nothing left to live for. Death is a mercy to them. But Owl does have something to live for. As you said, he lives for the fight. Enjoys it so much that training Wolf and facing him again are noted as the highlights of his life. But if he gained immortality, I think he would slowly lose this. He would either wither away or get lost in the slaughter like the Sculptor and eventually become "Shura". He would lose himself and become a husk. By losing to his son in battle, he lost his chance at immortality, but his death is followed by the realization that dying like this makes him happy. Where so many "immortal" characters eventually die sad and pathetic deaths, Owl gets to go out doing the thing he loved most, falling to the one person whose victory reflects his own life and teachings. It’s poetic. The biggest bastard in the story, hellbent on achieving "immortality" is the one who gets the happiest, most satisfied end, untarnished by any curse or loss of self. I think a big part of his satisfaction comes from the realization that he will get a form of immortality through Wolf. Everything Wolf accomplishes, even the fate of the Divine Heir, will be Owl’s legacy. This line of thinking is good There's alot more heavy examples of the motif being used later, so I won't spoil it. However I think you've driven the nail in. At it's core, Sekiro's themes and story draw alot from Buddhism and Shintoism; I'd argue it's a Buddhist horror story. Like I said before, the key tenant of Buddhism is the acceptance of life's impermeance; life's fleeting, but beautiful. You should cherish the time you have. Once people go against that tenant, really bad things happens. Senpo Temple is mostly disconnected from the main story, but I think it's the perfect representation of the game's themes. The desire for permeance is driving these monks into becoming centipede ridden monsters that experiment on children. And what do Centipedes represent in Japanese culture? Kegare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegare#:~:text=Kegare (穢れ・汚れ%2C uncleanness,Shinto as a religious term. Spiritual defilement. The Shinto concept of your spirit becoming dirty. By the Guardian's Ape's pool, it's mentioned the water there, despite being the source of the rejuvenating waters is the filthiest in all of Ashina because it's stagnant. Unchanging. Immortality breeds Kegare. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 28 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: There is an interesting parallel here between Owl/Wolf and the Sculptor/Emma. In both cases, an older Shinoni found a starving orphan on the battlefield, then gave them rice and took them to safety. Big difference is that Owl took Wolf under his wing to be raised as a killer, while the Sculptor gave Emma to more responsible hands to be raised as a healer. Interesting that the one who became Shura was the one with enough compassion to pass the child along. Genichiro is part of the cycle too. He's a war-orphan who was taken in by Isshin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 BTW, have you met my second favorite NPC?. His sidequest is fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: Genichiro is part of the cycle too. He's a war-orphan who was taken in by Isshin. Good point. Lots of common themes in this game, including that of father/child and legacy being the "true" immortality, both of which go together. 7 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: This line of thinking is good There's alot more heavy examples of the motif being used later, so I won't spoil it. However I think you've driven the nail in. At it's core, Sekiro's themes and story draw alot from Buddhism and Shintoism; I'd argue it's a Buddhist horror story. Like I said before, the key tenant of Buddhism is the acceptance of life's impermeance; life's fleeting, but beautiful. You should cherish the time you have. Once people go against that tenant, really bad things happens. Senpo Temple is mostly disconnected from the main story, but I think it's the perfect representation of the game's themes. The desire for permeance is driving these monks into become centipede ridden monsters that experiment on children. And what do Centipedes represent in Japanese culture? Kegare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegare#:~:text=Kegare (穢れ・汚れ%2C uncleanness,Shinto as a religious term. Spiritual defilement. The Shinto concept of your spirit becoming dirty. By the Guardian's Ape's pool, it's mentioned the water there, despite being the source of the rejuvenating waters is the filthiest in all of Ashina because it's stagnant. Unchanging. Immortality breeds Kegare. Excellent post. Thanks for sharing that on kegare. That is very insightful. Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: BTW, have you met my second favorite NPC?. His sidequest is fantastic. I have. I sent him off on a kite and now he’s just chilling in that cave where you drop kill the great serpent. Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 7 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I have. I sent him off on a kite and now he’s just chilling in that cave where you drop kill the great serpent. Okay, you have all the conditions done to see the end of his quest (You'll know when it triggers.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Overall, I think Sekiro has the best plot of any Souls games. And they did it while keeping the background themes and lore still very good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 14 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Overall, I think Sekiro has the best plot of any Souls games. And they did it while keeping the background themes and lore still very good. Agreed. Every Dark Souls game and Elden Ring is basically just "kill everything to the end, then make a big metaphysical choice and die/claim the prize". The bulk of the storytelling is found in the histories and lore you uncover. Bloodborne’s present day stuff has a little more going for it, but is also very nebulous and most answers we find come from the past. But Sekiro is mainly about what’s happening now. You’re not sifting through the ruins of a fallen Ashina discovering what happened to it. Rather, you’re witnessing its collapse in real time, interacting with the major players mostly in their primes. It’s a much more traditional story, and is better off for it. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 16 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Agreed. Every Dark Souls game and Elden Ring is basically just "kill everything to the end, then make a big metaphysical choice and die/claim the prize". The bulk of the storytelling is found in the histories and lore you uncover. Bloodborne’s present day stuff has a little more going for it, but is also very nebulous and most answers we find come from the past. But Sekiro is mainly about what’s happening now. You’re not sifting through the ruins of a fallen Ashina discovering what happened to it. Rather, you’re witnessing its collapse in real time, interacting with the major players mostly in their primes. It’s a much more traditional story, and is better off for it. And the cast is much more developed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: And the cast is much more developed One sake chat with Isshin tells us more about his character than we get on Nepheli Loux from her whole questline. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 What the hell? Think I found Sekiro’s "Rom" moment. I’m gonna guess the giant made out of straw is some Japanese mythology weirdness and just leave it at that. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 7 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: What the hell? Think I found Sekiro’s "Rom" moment. I’m gonna guess the giant made out of straw is some Japanese mythology weirdness and just leave it at that. It is. It's called a Wara Ningyo. A straw fetish animated through magic. This one is giant https://yokai.com/waraningyou/ And prepare for beautiful scenery 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 That article failed to mention them standing up and walking around… or being twelve stories tall. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Oh shit, Doc's at one of my favorite bosses! How you enjoying the true Corrupted Monk? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 She's the one I mentioned as being proto-Godrick. With how vocal she is during the battle, laughing, cackling, screaming and making weird ass noises 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 11 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Oh shit, Doc's at one of my favorite bosses! How you enjoying the true Corrupted Monk? You tell me. I keep going back to the same word everyone uses for this game: "rhythm". She had a great one and it was a very enjoyable boss all around. Kind of a cakewalk after the insanity and precision of the Owl (Father) fight though. Got her on my second try. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: You tell me. I keep going back to the same word everyone uses for this game: "rhythm". She had a great one and it was a very enjoyable boss all around. Kind of a cakewalk after the insanity and precision of the Owl (Father) fight though. Got her on my second try. Okay now you've unlocked my favorite area 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 21 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Okay now you've unlocked my favorite area Very tricksy of you to say I made it only for the first door to lead to another boss. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 22 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Okay now you've unlocked my favorite area Become Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 Forgot to mention, I also found Guardian Ape round 2 (3?) thanks to my merchant buddy. Wasn’t expecting a second ape to jump out. Thought it was gonna be a ridiculous fight after that but his posture broke after only a few hits, so it basically went back to 1v1 in seconds. 1 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 Explored just a little of Samurai Sovngarde last night. Those eel dogs surprised the heck out of me with their lightning bolts. Gonna go out on a limb and predict that this is to reacquaint us with the lightning return mechanic in preparation for another boss with divine powers. Lightning is cool in this game. I love how it’s not just "magic element #3" but rather an incredible power associated with the divine, such that for a mortal to even wield it is considered heretical and we only know of two who ever did. It’s definitely scary on the rare occasions that an enemy breaks it out. 2 Quote * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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