Soulsborne Thread #13

[TheCzarsHussar]

Was messing around with the Consort Radahn Lord Greatsword and I had the dumbest realization.

When out of fp, the weapon art would make for the coolest unique r1s. Damn you From!

[TheCzarsHussar]

Any idea what the ruin that the Procession of Stars entails is? I've seen some people say it's the heat death of the universe, others somehow link it to Frenzy (I have no idea why).

The demi-human swordmaster locked himself away to forestall it, as if it's an inevitable fate.

Edited July 24 by TheCzarsHussar

[The Good Doctor]

2 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

Any idea what the ruin that the Procession of Stars entails is? I've seen some people say it's the heat death of the universe, others somehow link it to Frenzy (I have no idea why).

If I had a guess, I’d wager that the people linking it to Frenzy are taking a shot in the dark based on the fact that the movements of stars in Elden Ring indicate the tides of fate. If they think that Frenzied Flame destroying the universe is the inevitable end of existence, then it would be the final thing to be viewed in the stars.

I don’t believe that, though. Just guessing at where the theorizers might be coming from.

I also don’t think it’s the heat death of the universe. In a setting whose cosmology is so incredibly unlike our own, where stars are alien creatures of fate, warriors can master "gravity" and wage war to freeze them in place, and the creator god might be or exist within a sort of black hole, I don’t see any reason why we should apply any real world scientific theory to our predictions regarding it.

[The Good Doctor]

4 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

Any idea what the ruin that the Procession of Stars entails is? I've seen some people say it's the heat death of the universe, others somehow link it to Frenzy (I have no idea why).

Putting on my tinfoil hat. Here is some stuff for you to chew on:  

 

The Stars of Ruin:

"When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken."

Given that the sorcery is literally called "The Stars of Ruin". I assume that what Lusat glimpsed is connected to, or the exact same thing as, the "ruin" which the demi-humans believe awaits at the end of the procession (or "cluster") of stars.
Why was he broken by this? I’ll get to that.

Eternal Darkness:

"Originally a lost sorcery of the Eternal City;
the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest."

Again, the word "ruin" is used. But this time, we know the details, as the Eternal City's ruin was brought about by the fallen star, Astel. So it’s not just repetition of the word "ruin", but specifically ruin preceded by the movement of a star.

"Procession" refers to a large group (or perhaps a "cluster") on the move. With all of the above in mind, I theorize that the demi-humans have glimpsed a large movement of Astel's kind that will destroy everything in their path. And using his maxed out insight, Lusat peered even further and glimpsed the culmination and ending of their procession: The "ruin" that is feared.

But with what we’ve learned in the DLC, I find it interesting that the ruin caused by Astel is specifically said to manifest as "eternal darkness". 
 

Comit Azur:

"When Azur glimpsed into the primeval current, he saw darkness. He was left both bewitched and fearful of the abyss."

Then we’ve got Azur, who saw no stars, but instead an abyss. Given what we learn in the DLC, I believe that this is the same "Lightless Abyss" that we learn from Ymir may be the Greater Will. Azur looked upon the face of their true god and was stricken mad by it. I believe this is why Lusat too was broken, for he saw it as well during the final moments of the star cluster.

So we know that:

-Stars command the fates of mortals and lesser gods

-Fallen stars are powerful entities that bring ruin to civilizations

-A "procession" of stars has been glimpsed leading to ruin

-A cluster" of stars has been glimpsed leading to something which drives brilliant men mad just by seeing it

-Seeing the endless darkness drives brilliant men mad

-Ruin caused by stars manifests as eternal or endless darkness

-The Greater Will is represented by endless darkness

My theory is that the demi-humans and primeval sorcerers have witnessed some form of the Lands Between’s own Revelations-like "end times", culminating in the return of the Greater Will.

A whole army of falling stars, bringing ruin. This ruin leads to endless darkness. This endless darkness will be the Greater Will. This is why glimpsing the "final moments" of the cluster/procession drove Lusat mad. The demi-humans saw the stars’ ruin, but Lusat saw what comes at the end of it, and like Azur it drove him mad as mortal minds cannot handle witnessing the Greater Will.

[TheCzarsHussar]

6 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

Putting on my tinfoil hat. Here is some stuff for you to chew on:  

  Reveal hidden contents

The Stars of Ruin:

"When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken."

Given that the sorcery is literally called "The Stars of Ruin". I assume that what Lusat glimpsed is connected to, or the exact same thing as, the "ruin" which the demi-humans believe awaits at the end of the procession (or "cluster") of stars.
Why was he broken by this? I’ll get to that.

Eternal Darkness:

"Originally a lost sorcery of the Eternal City;
the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest."

Again, the word "ruin" is used. But this time, we know the details, as the Eternal City's ruin was brought about by the fallen star, Astel. So it’s not just repetition of the word "ruin", but specifically ruin preceded by the movement of a star.

"Procession" refers to a large group (or perhaps a "cluster") on the move. With all of the above in mind, I theorize that the demi-humans have glimpsed a large movement of Astel's kind that will destroy everything in their path. And using his maxed out insight, Lusat peered even further and glimpsed the culmination and ending of their procession: The "ruin" that is feared.

But with what we’ve learned in the DLC, I find it interesting that the ruin caused by Astel is specifically said to manifest as "eternal darkness". 
 

Comit Azur:

"When Azur glimpsed into the primeval current, he saw darkness. He was left both bewitched and fearful of the abyss."

Then we’ve got Azur, who saw no stars, but instead an abyss. Given what we learn in the DLC, I believe that this is the same "Lightless Abyss" that we learn from Ymir may be the Greater Will. Azur looked upon the face of their true god and was stricken mad by it. I believe this is why Lusat too was broken, for he saw it as well during the final moments of the star cluster.

So we know that:

-Stars command the fates of mortals and lesser gods

-Fallen stars are powerful entities that bring ruin to civilizations

-A "procession" of stars has been glimpsed leading to ruin

-A cluster" of stars has been glimpsed leading to something which drives brilliant men mad just by seeing it

-Seeing the endless darkness drives brilliant men mad

-Ruin caused by stars manifests as eternal or endless darkness

-The Greater Will is represented by endless darkness

My theory is that the demi-humans and primeval sorcerers have witnessed some form of the Lands Between’s own Revelations-like "end times", culminating in the return of the Greater Will.

A whole army of falling stars, bringing ruin. This ruin leads to endless darkness. This endless darkness will be the Greater Will. This is why glimpsing the "final moments" of the cluster/procession drove Lusat mad. The demi-humans saw the stars’ ruin, but Lusat saw what comes at the end of it, and like Azur it drove him mad as mortal minds cannot handle witnessing the Greater Will.

Yooo I dig this theory, it makes sense given the context of other things.

I wonder if Radahn was also privy to such fate, and halted the movement of the heavens to delay or prevent the Procession of Stars.

[TheCzarsHussar]

Radahn preventing the Lands Between end times just casually adding another W to his character

[TheCzarsHussar]

Man I love Elden Rings cosmological mythology. It's such a disservice to it when I see the growing number of people beholden to the theories that the Greater Will doesn't exist. Entirely misinterpreting the weird metaphysics lol

[The Good Doctor]

17 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

I wonder if Radahn was also privy to such fate, and halted the movement of the heavens to delay or prevent the Procession of Stars.

I thought about suggesting that as well but didn’t really have any evidence to back it up besides that he studied in Sellia and froze the stars.

Sadly, Radahn’s motives for becoming the Starscourge are not very well explored. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

I thought about suggesting that as well but didn’t really have any evidence to back it up besides that he studied in Sellia and froze the stars.

Sadly, Radahn’s motives for becoming the Starscourge are not very well explored. 

There's a handful of possibilities, unfortunately like you said there's nothing pointing in any direction.

Radahn might have set out to protect Sellia from an Astel and ended up extremely over achieving.

Radagon might have had Radahn campaign on behalf of the Golden Order.

Radahn might have halted the stars to prevent himself from being Miquellested.

[TheCzarsHussar]

Elden Ring 2 looking good

 

[The Good Doctor]

3 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

There's a handful of possibilities, unfortunately like you said there's nothing pointing in any direction.

Radahn might have set out to protect Sellia from an Astel and ended up extremely over achieving.

Radagon might have had Radahn campaign on behalf of the Golden Order.

Radahn might have halted the stars to prevent himself from being Miquellested.

Radahn might have been deliberately trying to prevent his sister's fate from progressing.

Radahn might have just loved war and seen the stars as the ultimate conquest.

Radahn might have wanted to prove that the dark moon landing was an hoax and got carried away.  

[TheCzarsHussar]

18 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Radahn might have been deliberately trying to prevent his sister's fate from progressing.

Radahn might have just loved war and seen the stars as the ultimate conquest.

Radahn might have wanted to prove that the dark moon landing was an hoax and got carried away.  

"There's no Greater Dammed way my mom, aunt and sister aaaaaaaall saw these moon deities. You know what FUCK IT! I'm going to kick the dark moon's ass myself. Come on Leonard, YEET!"

[TheCzarsHussar]

Here's some crazy ass implications. The Blackflame incantations sigil is the same (or incredibly similar in) to Metyr's face. I finally went to test it out and it's a strikingly close match.

[BigBossBalrog]

Good result for such a niche series and genre. Apparently there already working on an expansion. Probably costed a lot less then their other games. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

Fought Divine Beast again. Was getting insanely frustrated as he very very hard countered my build and I refused to change it temporarily.

I kept trying to be defensive and use perfect blocking but the camera is still the worst it's ever been with this boss so it's impossible as a permanent strat. Especially since the only weapon I had that wasn't useless against it was a heavy thrusting sword flame art infused.

The SINGLE time I get fed up and decide to go Sekiro style full aggression and two handed no shield he gets melted and I only chug a few times. Still hate this boss' camera but I'm less frustrated in myself.

[The Good Doctor]

I’d be interested to see FromSoft try to make a game that doesn’t have awful cameras for the giant boss enemies, and actually experiments with situationally adjusting or zooming out the perspective, removing walls, etc. Anything to make it so the camera isn’t universally the most criticized element of their gameplay. 

I think the Divine Beast and Amygdala fights are good examples of ones that’d benefit a lot from this. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

45 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

I’d be interested to see FromSoft try to make a game that doesn’t have awful cameras for the giant boss enemies, and actually experiments with situationally adjusting or zooming out the perspective, removing walls, etc. Anything to make it so the camera isn’t universally the most criticized element of their gameplay. 

I think the Divine Beast and Amygdala fights are good examples of ones that’d benefit a lot from this. 

As you'll find out in Sekiro, Fromsoft is fully capable (from Sekiro onwards XD) of fighting large bosses without the shitty camera.

Why they didn't implement it Elden Ring I have no idea

[The Good Doctor]

9 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

As you'll find out in Sekiro, Fromsoft is fully capable (from Sekiro onwards XD) of fighting large bosses without the shitty camera.

Why they didn't implement it Elden Ring I have no idea

Closest thing I’ve encountered to a large boss so far has been the giant serpent, which was less a boss fight and more a horror stealth sequence. But now that you mention it, even during that, there were parts where the camera was adjusted.

Like when you’re shimmying along that ledge with your back to the wall. The camera was fixed and zoomed out at a unique angle for that segment so we could watch the snake look around for us while sneaking by. That was cool. Would definitely take more of that.

[TheCzarsHussar]

3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Closest thing I’ve encountered to a large boss so far has been the giant serpent, which was less a boss fight and more a horror stealth sequence. But that you mention it, even during that, there were parts where the camera was adjusted.

Like when you’re shimmying along that ledge with your back to the wall. The camera was fixed and zoomed out at a unique angle for that segment so we could watch the snake look around for us while sneaking by. That was cool. Would definitely take more of that.

I seriously can't wait for you to reach that games equivalent to killing Rom, and then the real batshit insane stuff starts happening

There's a very late game boss who I think will be a strong contender for your all time favorite in the game.

[TheCzarsHussar]

2 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

There's a very late game boss who I think will be a strong contender for your all time favorite in the game.

I just realized this boss in question is proto-Godrick. They whole time they fight you they're making these cackles, screams, laughs and the like.

[The Good Doctor]

5 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

There's a very late game boss who I think will be a strong contender for your all time favorite in the game.

There are lots of those, apparently.  Lady Butterfly and Genichiro were only the second and third true bosses I faced and are already in my top tier for any FromSoft game.

[BigBossBalrog]

All the big monster fights in Sekiro are pretty awesome.

[The Good Doctor]

16 hours ago, BigBossBalrog said:

All the big monster fights in Sekiro are pretty awesome.

Speaking of big monsters, I reached the Guardian Ape tonight. Fought him once, but I’m too tired to give this the effort it’s gonna take so I’ll save him for next time.

Got a lot done today. Explored the Senpou Temple area, killed the hide-and-seek monkey bosses, and got the Mortal Blade from the Divine Child of Rejuvenation. 

Also finally killed the Great Serpent. Enjoyed the puzzle of how to reach his area using the kite. The clue from the old lady to use a puppet was a satisfying payoff, as was the snake kill itself.

The Gun Fort was cool too. Loving the variety of creative encounters this game has. I like how many combat situations are more complex than just straightforward "hit them until they die", with some being almost as much a puzzle to solve as a test of skill. The snake, Robert’s dad, the monkeys, etc. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

8 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

Speaking of big monsters, I reached the Guardian Ape tonight. Fought him once, but I’m too tired to give this the effort it’s gonna take so I’ll save him for next time.

Got a lot done today. Explored the Senpou Temple area, killed the hide-and-seek monkey bosses, and got the Mortal Blade from the Divine Child of Rejuvenation. 

Also finally killed the Great Serpent. Enjoyed the puzzle of how to reach his area using the kite. The clue from the old lady to use a puppet was a satisfying payoff, as was the snake kill itself.

The Gun Fort was cool too. Loving the variety of creative encounters this game has. I like how many combat situations are more complex than just straightforward "hit them until they die", with some being almost as much a puzzle to solve as a test of skill. The snake, Robert’s dad, the monkeys, etc. 

Yooo, you're one boss away from Juan Carlos Eduardo Pizzaro

[BigBossBalrog]

9 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

Speaking of big monsters, I reached the Guardian Ape tonight. Fought him once, but I’m too tired to give this the effort it’s gonna take so I’ll save him for next time.

Got a lot done today. Explored the Senpou Temple area, killed the hide-and-seek monkey bosses, and got the Mortal Blade from the Divine Child of Rejuvenation. 

Also finally killed the Great Serpent. Enjoyed the puzzle of how to reach his area using the kite. The clue from the old lady to use a puppet was a satisfying payoff, as was the snake kill itself.

The Gun Fort was cool too. Loving the variety of creative encounters this game has. I like how many combat situations are more complex than just straightforward "hit them until they die", with some being almost as much a puzzle to solve as a test of skill. The snake, Robert’s dad, the monkeys, etc. 

That has to be one of my favorite cutscenes. 

And that's why I think the curated, polished encounter design was at it's peak in Sekiro. You have all these set-pieces and combat encounters that are so fun to tackle without feeling super gimmicky. I love the reference to Princess Mononoke too