TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 13 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: But that would beg the question of where he came from. The only humans(?) I can think of who were actually part of Hornsent civilization were the Shamans, who I assume were of the Numen race. The Hornsent were, for a short time, probably VERY short time a part of the Erdtree civilization. That's why they consider Marika and Messmer's crusade a great betrayal. There might have been more humans amidst the Hornsent civilization, being most joined with the early Erdtree civilization 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, TheCzarsHussar said: With the cut dialogue showing Godfrey, even after his banishment had utter faith in Marika. I really like to believe he's been with her since the beginning, it'd be even more fascinating if they loved one another before her divinity. Would also mean a lot if he is even vaguely aware of what her fate might’ve been, and part of his goal was to rescue her. Would be great to see a version of the story where he actually enters the Erdtree and reacts to what’s going on in there. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: Would also mean a lot if he is even vaguely aware of what her fate might’ve been, and part of his goal was to rescue her. Would be great to see a version of the story where he actually enters the Erdtree and reacts to what’s going on in there. In the cut dialogue he knew that Marika would one day shatter the Elden Ring. And fully committed his Tarnished army to being her ace in the hole. Merely awaiting the call to return. With that context I think he did have a vague idea of her fate. Man I really wish Fromsoft had an prologue where our character was a confidant of Godfrey during their early exile. Would add so much more character and tragedy coming to blows at the end. But with the Grace of Gold showing Godfrey that our Tarnished was his final obstacle keeping him from Marika, he had to duel his old friend for lordship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 13 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Imagine finding out that the inspiration for your race built Numenor and Gondor, and were among the proudest and most impressive civilizations of man in all of fantasy fiction… and you built two shitty villages before some horned fuckers stuffed you into a jar. Thanks Miyazaki. Honestly? I like it. You have these probably great explorers/conqueror's seeing the chance for a simpler life and they took it. Even Gondor was considered extremely horrible/decedent (to the point J.R.R said alot of the peoples supporting Sauron had a ton of legitimate grievances with how Gondor treated them many times). While the Shamans wanted to lead a humbler lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 4 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: The Hornsent were, for a short time, probably VERY short time a part of the Erdtree civilization. That's why they consider Marika and Messmer's crusade a great betrayal. There might have been more humans amidst the Hornsent civilization, being most joined with the early Erdtree civilization I find it funny that the Hornsent might inadvertently be the most unsympathetic culture FromSoft had ever written. I find it downright funny that they are so confused and indignant over Mairka’s crusades against them when they literally put sensory deprivation masks on their units just to help stave off the guilt of committing atrocities on the Shamans. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I find it funny that the Hornsent might inadvertently be the most unsympathetic culture FromSoft had ever written. I find it downright funny that they are so confused and indignant over Mairka’s crusades against them when they literally put sensory deprivation masks on their units just to help stave off the guilt of committing atrocities on the Shamans. Hornsent Grandma: "What could have possibly caused such wanton hatred?! O' Spiral, what could we have possibly done to deserve such cruelty?!" Casually cracking a jar Numen with a tooth whip. Edited July 19 by TheCzarsHussar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 10 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I find it funny that the Hornsent might inadvertently be the most unsympathetic culture FromSoft had ever written. I find it downright funny that they are so confused and indignant over Mairka’s crusades against them when they literally put sensory deprivation masks on their units just to help stave off the guilt of committing atrocities on the Shamans. Apparently Hornent (the asshole NPC) actually has a self-reflective moment as he dies. He mutters sadly for Miquella to "redeem his clan". Which I think implies, he knows they wronged the Shaman and feels guilty about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: Apparently Hornent (the asshole NPC) actually has a self-reflective moment as he dies. He mutters sadly for Miquella to "redeem his clan". Which I think implies, he knows they wronged the Shaman and feels guilty about it. I take it more as "redeem us by killing the Erdtree faithful who wronged us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 Just now, TheCzarsHussar said: Hornsent Grandma: "What could have possibly caused such wanton hatred?! O' Spiral, what could we have possibly done to deserve such cruelty?!" Casually cracking a jar Numen with a tooth whip. Character literally just named "Hornsent": "There is nothing I want more in life than to kill Messmer." Tarnished: *kills Messmer* Hornsent: … "There is nothing I want more in life than to kill the guy who killed Messmer." 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: Character literally just named "Hornsent": "There is nothing I want more in life than to kill Messmer." Tarnished: *kills Messmer* Hornsent: … "There is nothing I want more in life than to kill the guy who killed Messmer." He betrays you when you SAVE HIS LIFE against Leda They didn't deserve a genocide anymore than the Snow Elves, but both fucked around and found out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 And ultimately, I still think the action was wrong, and FROMSOFT is condemning the retaliation and cycle of this genocidal revenge. The masks of the black knights says it best "A rotten odor stubbornly clings to it. Perhaps it arises from the tainted nature of the blood that splattered upon it. Or perhaps it is the wearer's own blackened soul, festering after endless slaughter." Or how Messmer is miserable wreck of a person; who seems to be made of self-loathing. Or how Marika, a sweet Shaman healer who wanted to spread happiness in her village, became a monstrous tyrant who inflicted worst things on people who had nothing to do with her prosecution by the Hornsent. Even if we call it righteous, vengeance has blackened all their souls. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 3 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Apparently Hornent (the asshole NPC) actually has a self-reflective moment as he dies. He mutters sadly for Miquella to "redeem his clan". Which I think implies, he knows they wronged the Shaman and feels guilty about it. Or maybe he knows that Miquella would 100% definitely end the crusade and his civilization might finally be restored. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Lore and combat wise, both Hornsent and Ansbach very well had high chances of dying to Leda during their separate invasions. Leda is no joke, too bad Ansbach once he gets tired of everyone's shit is even deadlier than her 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 4 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Lore and combat wise, both Hornsent and Ansbach very well had high chances of dying to Leda during their separate invasions. Leda is no joke, too bad Ansbach once he gets tired of everyone's shit is even deadlier than her Yeah Leda is a monster. Her armor implies she massacred all her fellow Needle Knights in a blood-fueled slaughter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: And ultimately, I still think the action was wrong, and FROMSOFT is condemning the retaliation and cycle of this genocidal revenge. The masks of the black knights says it best "A rotten odor stubbornly clings to it. Perhaps it arises from the tainted nature of the blood that splattered upon it. Or perhaps it is the wearer's own blackened soul, festering after endless slaughter." Or how Messmer is miserable wreck of a person; who seems to be made of self-loathing. Or how Marika, a sweet Shaman healer who wanted to spread happiness in her village, became a monstrous tyrant who inflicted worst things on people who had nothing to do with her prosecution by the Hornsent. Even if we call it righteous, vengeance has blackened all their souls. It's definitely cyclical. The Hornsent commits atrocities on Numen (alongside also genociding Omens and the weird Orc rat people looking fatties), and end up being near destroyed by the people they wronged. Erdtree civilization commits atrocities on Hornsent, alongside Omens and Misbegotten. And are themselves crumbling from multiple sources, one of which being the Misbegotten and Omens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Yeah Leda is a monster. Her armor implies she massacred all her fellow Needle Knights in a blood-fueled slaughter. Miquella: FUCKING CHILL GIRL. Gets charmed so she stops murdering everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: And ultimately, I still think the action was wrong, and FROMSOFT is condemning the retaliation and cycle of this genocidal revenge. The masks of the black knights says it best "A rotten odor stubbornly clings to it. Perhaps it arises from the tainted nature of the blood that splattered upon it. Or perhaps it is the wearer's own blackened soul, festering after endless slaughter." Or how Messmer is miserable wreck of a person; who seems to be made of self-loathing. Or how Marika, a sweet Shaman healer who wanted to spread happiness in her village, became a monstrous tyrant who inflicted worst things on people who had nothing to do with her prosecution by the Hornsent. Even if we call it righteous, vengeance has blackened all their souls. Indeed, there is a worthwhile message here about why one shouldn’t relish in vengeance. It effectively corrupted the entire kingdom Marika sought to build, and is the root of most suffering in the Lands Between. But I’m just saying, the Hornsent, unlike Marika or the Golden Order, really don’t seem to have any serious redeeming qualities. They remind me of certain Biblical tribes who really just went so far off the deep end that they basically begged to get wiped out. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Or just look at how Malenia and Radahn ended up. Two of them of the most noble and honorable people in the setting. Surrounded by piles of corpse, on their knees reduced to monstrous perversions of themselves. It makes Millicent decision to let herself fade away as a noble and untarnished warrior all the more chilling. With all the additional context, it's like she choose to not to become a monster like her relatives. Dying as herself Sekiro plays with the themes alot too. Which you'll see. 7 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Miquella: FUCKING CHILL GIRL. Gets charmed so she stops murdering everyone. Literally that fucking happens and it's great. Leda talks about being worried that the charm existence is the only thing keeping everyone from killing each other and she turns out to be the most violent and crazy of them all 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Miquella: FUCKING CHILL GIRL. Gets charmed so she stops murdering everyone. Weird as it sounds, if there was a single NPC who I think this wouldn’t work on, it might be Leda. Miquella’s charm works such that people are forced to love him and thus cease their violence in order to follow him. Leda already loves him unconditionally. It’d be funny as hell if she just thanked him for the blessing then went on serial killing in his name, to Miquella’s confusion. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 3 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Or just look at how Malenia and Radahn ended up. Two of them of the most noble and honorable people in the setting. Surrounded by piles of corpse, on their knees reduced to monstrous perversions of themselves. #RadahnDidNothingWrong 1 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 4 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: #RadahnDidNothingWrong #RadahnSaidYesToHisLittleBroAskingIfTheyCouldGetMarriedAtLeastAtFirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Weird as it sounds, if there was a single NPC who I think this wouldn’t work on, it might be Leda. Miquella’s charm works such that people are forced to love him and thus cease their violence in order to follow him. Leda already loves him unconditionally. It’d be funny as hell if she just thanked him for the blessing then went on serial killing in his name, to Miquella’s confusion. No really, Miquella's charm was the only thing keeping Leda from slaughtering everyone. Nobody else was even going to challenge Miquella outside the player. Throllier wanted to lose himself in the everlasting sleep of St. Trina. Ansbach was a broken man who didn't see the point in taking up his bloodflame again. Dryleaf Dane is her faithful ally and also truly believed in Miquella. Moore has the IQ of a child and just wants to be loved. Hornsent swears an oath that he wishes only to avenge his people. But Leda mucks everything up with her bloodthirsty paranoia. Ending up sending Ansbach down the path of redemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: #RadahnSaidYesToHisLittleBroAskingIfTheyCouldGetMarriedAtLeastAtFirst Fake news/citation needed/Miquella had branches infected with the big gay 2 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 3 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: #RadahnSaidYesToHisLittleBroAskingIfTheyCouldGetMarriedAtLeastAtFirst That's actually ambiguous Miquella was seemingly alone, rambling to himself as he begged Radahn to become his consort. And if he wasn't, and actually talking to Radahn, it's telling he only gets silence in return as the screen fades to black. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: Fake news/citation needed/Miquella had branches infected with the big gay Miquella: Why doesn't anyone love me ;-; Malenia: You have the body of a child. Miquella:....Why doesn't anyone love me ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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