House of the Dragon Spoiler Thread #1

[The Good Doctor]

Saw the new episode. It is so refreshing to have a show that is this consistently good.  

Huge wall of text. Just lots to say about each character.

 

After being something of a doormat for the first couple episodes, it was nice to see Daemon finally back to acting as a major player in his own right. His scenes in Harrenhal were great, both the creepy horror stuff and his interactions with the castellan. I love what a loose cannon he is, to the point that even people who do everything in their power to stay on his good side still have to balance on a knife’s edge to keep from making him angry. He’s the ultimate chaotic rogue.

The sheer scale of Harrenhal was tangible by how it’s an occupied keep yet Daemon can explore it for quite some time without encountering a soul.

And those zoomed out shots were amazing. Production has come a long way since GoT season 1:

Aegon still working hard to maintain his position as the most compellingly written cruel asshole this side of the Narrow Sea. I honestly love every scene the guy is in. You can feel the weight he has on his shoulders, to the point where the throne seems less a prize to be won and more a horrible, immense burden. He is in so far over his head, with his advisors pulling him in different directions, Clubfoot manipulating him, the smallfolk impossible to keep happy, and himself trying to be strong in his own right.

I quite liked the scene where Aegon’s buddies who he seemingly made Kingsguard on a whim thought he was joking when he mentioned their vows of chastity, and he suddenly got all serious, like he had a moment of clarity in which he wanted these institutions to be taken seriously… but then he squandered it the next time he got drunk.  Dude feels very close to snapping under all this pressure, and I suspect he’ll do something drastic when that happens.

Everything to do with Aemond has been surprisingly sad. Where the book basically just painted him as a monster, the show gives him far more depth. He was the "bullied child" of the two litters, and that motivated him to work harder than the rest to become a scary badass who nobody dares pick on. He’s not evil at heart, but after the accident with Lucerys, instead of admitting he lost control and looking like a weak fool, he embraced the role and now everyone thinks he’s a monster. It’s no wonder he keeps returning to a prostitute who looks like his mom. Similar to Aegon, there is nobody else in the world who actually shows him any love. Even his own mother detests him. He hates feeling weak and being mocked, and I suspect that this latest humiliation hit his "you know what? Screw you" point.  He seems done caring what others think. Wouldn’t be surprised if he unleashes Vhagar soon.

Also probably notable that while Aegon laughed at Aemond, the Kingsguard posse went silent. They know which brother is the one to be feared.

I liked Alicent’s brother. He had a strong presence for a new character with little screen time. Even had a nice little arc across his two scenes.

Criston Cole spotting that dragon and saving everybody might’ve been the first moment of competence he’s had since early season 1.  That scene did an excellent job of reminding why dragons are so feared. Moondancer is one of the relatively smaller ones, but it still would have absolutely obliterated them if not for Rhaenyra’s orders not to engage. I love how scary these sequences feel when shown mostly through the POV of normal boots on the ground.

Rhaenyra sneaking into Kings Landing and happening upon Alicent at just the perfect moment felt a little too easy and convenient for such a risky move. Felt a little too quick and contrived.

Still, I loved the interaction itself, and what it did for The development of both characters. It felt like the most definitive "okay, now this is war" moment so far. This was the one final effort to turn back and prevent what’s coming… and it was botched. I like how it started with Rhaenyra looking like the good guy risking her life for peace, but in the end, she is just as unwilling to pay the necessary cost as Aegon is, despite being the only other individual alive with the power to stop the war. Turning to Alicent was futile as the situation has always been outside her control. 

My biggest negative criticisms since season 1 still revolve around Rhaenys. The fact that she is persistently being used as the Blacks' figure of moral judgement and level-headed wisdom is frustrating when she probably has the single highest innocent body count of any character in either show besides Daenerys herself. Feels like the showrunners completely missed that they filmed a scene of her murdering hundreds of smallfolk, because no consequences are ever shown and nobody ever calls her out or acknowledges her hypocrisy. I feel like the point of her character is to be the wise old woman who is usually correct and should’ve been queen, but I can’t help but just read her as undeservedly smug and self-righteous. She is worse than any of them.

[Celan]

I didn't have much to say about this episode but I did like Harrenhal and how Daemon was actually scared by the curse.

It was poignant that the two factions figured out that it was all a giant misunderstanding, but too late to stop the running train dragon.

Not long back I listened to an audio book called The Horde, about the Mongols, and it reminds me of them- the fact that the Targaryens were brought down not by their cruel and mad kings but by a king who tried to make everyone happy.

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, Celan said:

the Targaryens were brought down not by their cruel and mad kings

Though not for lack of trying.  

[BigBossBalrog]

Caught up. First two episodes were slow (building up tension) but in a mostly good way, and the third was awesome. I'll post more thoughts later.  

Was I the only one who after seeing that scene convinced they could pull off the rumored ER show? It perfectly captures the same atmosphere. 

 

[The Good Doctor]

8 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Was I the only one who after seeing that scene convinced they could pull off the rumored ER show? It perfectly captures the same atmosphere. 

I was saying that in the Soulsborne thread. The Harrenhal scenes could’ve been straight out of Dark Souls or something.  

[The Good Doctor]

8 hours ago, BigBossBalrog said:

I'll post more thoughts later.  

Got any favorite or stand-out characters in season 2 so far? 

[ColonelKillaBee]

On 6/23/2024 at 8:34 PM, The Good Doctor said:

@ColonelKillaBee You started HotD yet?  

New episode tonight. I’m excited. 

No lol i had to make some business expenses priority but I will start this week, promise

[BigBossBalrog]

1 hour ago, The Good Doctor said:

Got any favorite or stand-out characters in season 2 so far? 

It's still Daemon 

[The Good Doctor]

11 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

It's still Daemon 

He only really starts doing stuff in the latest episode, but yeah, he was very cool in it.  

For season 2 in a vacuum, Otto had probably been my favorite. And, oddly enough, Aegon is a strong contender as well, in a "love to hate" sort of way. 

[The Good Doctor]

Anyone watched the new episode yet? Easily my favorite of the season and possibly my second favorite of the series overall.

The final part was insane. 

 

I know it took a while for the action to kick off in full, but I feel like the four episodes of buildup was well worth it. This battle had more weight and more meaningful stakes than 99% of action you’ll ever get in a series these days. It was well earned and all the characters present had strong motivations for being there and behaving as they did.

And damn, they didn’t cheap out. Might be the best looking dragon action ever put on TV, if not film. That whole sequence was very impressive.

My least favorite character is out of the picture.  Honestly, I liked Rhaenys quite a bit in this episode. There’s a lot to draw from her choosing to turn back and finish the fight even knowing she probably wouldn’t win. And her dragon’s death was quite sad. Also badass as hell. But the moment the horn sounded and Vhagar stood up in the trees, that battle could’ve only ever ended one way. That beast is terrifying.

Aemond must be feeling like a god at this point, with all the dragons and dragon riders he’s crossing off his list, potentially even including his own brother.

Criston Cole finally did something smart! With Aemond’s help, of course. Not only was it a clever maneuver tactically that took out their enemies' biggest dragon, but it also forced the Blacks to use their dragons first, which will be another easy propaganda win for the Greens. "We tried to keep it from going there, but Rhaenyra forced our hands!"

I love how Alicent is such a bad parent that the one thing to finally push Aegon over the edge and motivate him to do something was her telling him point-blank to do nothing.  

Daemon tripping balls has been amusing. With that blood on his hands, do y’all think he actually murdered someone during his hallucination? Harenhall is so huge that a dead servant could get dumped in some dark corner and not be noticed for weeks. Or did that effect just linger a little longer? Either way, it’s interesting how he’s so conflicted that it's got him straight up considering just declaring for himself like the Conqueror. 

[The Good Doctor]

 

Also loved the scene of the small council meeting where Aemond utterly outplayed Aegon by breaking out the High Valyrian. Pretty much the only way Aegon could get out of that without looking like a complete fool was to agree, since he lacked the capacity to argue on equal footing and probably didn’t even understand half of what was said to begin with.

Just highlights so much about the dynamic between those two, in terms of their power and competence. 

[Celan]

I thought you made this thread so you didn't have to use spoiler tags.

That was an amazing episode. Wow wow, that's probably the best ASoIaF screen action ever, plus great character moments like Alicent sticking a knife in her son's heart when he was already feeling stupid. She put him in that position, which makes it all the more brutal.

The utter carnage and pandemonium of a dragon war was depicted quite well. Sides didn't even matter, all the scurrying soldiers are just meat to them.

Vhagar really is terrifying. Since I'm an aviation nerd now, watching him take off reminds me of the massive A380, where you wonder how such a thing can get off the ground. Yet Vhagar has his signature stealth fighter move, too.

A380:

 

 

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, Celan said:

I thought you made this thread so you didn't have to use spoiler tags.

I did but mostly because you and I were the only ones watching it. Then Balrog jumped in behind us and now Colonel is about to start. Tags are just a courtesy to them while they play catchup.  

[The Good Doctor]

57 minutes ago, Celan said:

That was an amazing episode. Wow wow, that's probably the best ASoIaF screen action ever

Right? Might even be the best dragon action from anything ever. They went all-out with this one.

57 minutes ago, Celan said:

The utter carnage and pandemonium of a dragon war was depicted quite well. Sides didn't even matter, all the scurrying soldiers are just meat to them.

Felt like the show’s big delivery on its premise. They’ve spent a season and a half asking the question of what it looks like when two sides of a war both have dragons. How horrible does it get? This is the answer.

And Rook’s Rest was a relatively small battle. Can’t wait to see what happens when Daemon gets involved. 

[The Good Doctor]

@Celan

 

Do you think Aemond torching Aegon was purposeful or an accident?

I figured it was purposeful while watching, but thinking back on how Vhagar is so hard to control, and how she seems to act more on Aemond’s desires rather than his intentions, makes me think it could be another instance of him losing control.

If Aemond hates his brother and deep down wishes him dead so that he can become king, then she’d probably go for the kill in that moment even if that’s not what he was actively steering her to do. Similar to what happened with Luke.

[Celan]

25 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

@Celan

  Hide contents

Do you think Aemond torching Aegon was purposeful or an accident?

I figured it was purposeful while watching, but thinking back on how Vhagar is so hard to control, and how she seems to act more on Aemond’s desires rather than his intentions, makes me think it could be another instance of him losing control.

If Aemond hates his brother and deep down wishes him dead so that he can become king, then she’d probably go for the kill in that moment even if that’s not what he was actively steering her to do. Similar to what happened with Luke.

Absolutely purposeful. I think he wants the whole kit and kaboodle, including Helaena. He was about to finish him when Cole came up.

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, Celan said:

Absolutely purposeful. I think he wants the whole kit and kaboodle, including Helaena. He was about to finish him when Cole came up.

I definitely think he wants it. Just wondering if he wanted it enough to make that move deliberately, or if Vhagar sensed his desires and made it for him. 

But with how he’s been acting towards Aegon since the brothel scene, I think you’re right. His attitude towards him is now a resounding "screw you", and when he saw this golden opportunity, he seized on it.

 

Also, the prophesy hidden on that dagger is revealed by flames, which Sunfyre was just engulfed in.

Bet you anything Aemond was reading it when Cole showed up, especially since this episode made a point earlier to remind us how fluent he is with High Valyrian.

[Celan]

2 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

I definitely think he wants it. Just wondering if he wanted it enough to make that move deliberately, or if Vhagar sensed his desires and made it for him. 

But with how he’s been acting towards Aegon since the brothel scene, I think you’re right. His attitude towards him is now a resounding "screw you", and when he saw this golden opportunity, he seized on it.

  Hide contents

Also, the prophesy hidden on that dagger is revealed by flames, which Sunfyre was just engulfed in.

Bet you anything Aemond was reading it when Cole showed up, especially since this episode made a point earlier to remind us how fluent he is with High Valyrian.

I thought the episode made it pretty clear, since as Aegon says "thank god," Aemond is all "fry his ass."

What was the prophecy?

I wasn't aware you didn't like Rhaenys- I think she's pretty badass and she certainly went out that way.

[The Good Doctor]

6 minutes ago, Celan said:

What was the prophecy?

The Song of Ice and Fire. In season 1, Viserys held the blade in a fire and the heat revealed the script, One Ring style.  

6 minutes ago, Celan said:

I wasn't aware you didn't like Rhaenys- I think she's pretty badass and she certainly went out that way.

I liked her up until near the end of season 1 when she broke out of the Dragonpit and killed hundreds of innocent bystanders without a shred of remorse, the proceeded to spend the remainder of her time on the show moralizing at everyone else about how men are the problem with society.

Bitch, you’ve got the third highest body count after Daenerys and the freaking Night King!  Get off your high horse.

But yeah, she definitely went out like a boss. No denying that. I liked her in this episode. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

On 7/3/2024 at 11:40 AM, BigBossBalrog said:

It's still Daemon 

Did nothing wrong

im catching up 

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Did nothing wrong

im catching up 

Be careful not to read any of our posts until you do. Very spoiler heavy. 

[Celan]

3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

The Song of Ice and Fire. In season 1, Viserys held the blade in a fire and the heat revealed the script, One Ring style.  

I liked her up until near the end of season 1 when she broke out of the Dragonpit and killed hundreds of innocent bystanders without a shred of remorse, the proceeded to spend the remainder of her time on the show moralizing at everyone else about how men are the problem with society.

Bitch, you’ve got the third highest body count after Daenerys and the freaking Night King!  Get off your high horse.

But yeah, she definitely went out like a boss. No denying that. I liked her in this episode. 

Ah right.

Rhaenys is your typical Targaryen- doesn't mind stepping on a few plebs to get her way.

3 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Did nothing wrong

im catching up 

Don't read this thread until you're done, I'm too lazy to use spoiler tags.

[The Good Doctor]

5 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Did nothing wrong

There’s not a character in this show that this phrase applies to.  

Except maybe Lyonel Strong…

[The Good Doctor]

18 minutes ago, Celan said:

Rhaenys is your typical Targaryen- doesn't mind stepping on a few plebs to get her way.

I’m cool with that when they recognize it. What bothers me about Rhaenys is that she consistently acts like she’s the most righteous of the bunch and is super judgmental of everybody else while arguably being the worst of them. I just don’t like her attitude.

And it feels to me like the writers don’t even realize what a bad person they made her, while being acutely aware of it for basically every other character.

[Celan]

6 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

I’m cool with that when they recognize it. What bothers me about Rhaenys is that she consistently acts like she’s the most righteous of the bunch and is super judgmental of everybody else while arguably being the worst of them. I just don’t like her attitude.

And it feels to me like the writers don’t even realize what a bad person they made her, while being acutely aware of it for basically every other character.

I don't see it as that big a deal because she's talking about the whole kingdom being at war and dragons being at war. The scale of destruction is much greater. Though they could have had her give a throwaway line about having no choice but to stomp a bunch of smallfolk to get her freedom.