House of the Dragon Spoiler Thread #1

[The Good Doctor]

@Celan I figured we could make a thread here to keep from spoiling anyone else when we talk about the show. 

[The Good Doctor]

I thought episode 1 was decent. Nothing mind-blowing. Similar to the beginning of season 1, it was mostly setup.

Surprisingly, Jace and Aegon were my favorite characters to follow in this episode. Definitely would’ve guessed that for either of them.

I liked the intro in the North and Jace’s interactions with Cregan Stark (who was very well cast), whose lines about honor and duty highlighted well why the Northmen stand apart from the lords of the South whose allegiances have been highlighted as fickle and up in air. Was nice to see Winterfell and the Wall again, with the old music as too. Made me nostalgic for when GoT was good. Creators knew what they were doing.  

I think one of the best scenes was again with Jace, when he returned home and reunited with Rhaenyra. The acting was very strong there, with how they started out trying to play their roles and maintain a strong face, but couldn’t keep it up and broke down.

Also really liked Aegon’s small council and throne room scenes. Both because they actually addressed the logistics of running a kingdom during wartime (something GoT completely dropped by season 5) and because they introduced some much needed dimension to Aegon’s character. 

Otto is still great. Lots of "told ya so" moments with him in this episode.  

I wish Daemon had laid into Rhaenys more for her fuckups. Feel like that’s way past due. I’m ready for him and Aemond both to get let off their leashes.

I knew the ending with "Blood and Cheese" was coming, so it didn’t shock me as much as it could’ve, but I imagine that scene will disturb lots of people. Though if I recall, it was a little toned down from the book, where they made her choose who dies and then killed the other, leaving the surviving child to know his mom chose him for death.

If there was one thing I miss from the book, it’s that we seemingly won’t be getting the story of Jace falling in love with Cregan‘s bastard sister in the North, but I could see that being considered too much of a detour from the main focus of things. 

Overall, I don’t really have any big complaints. I feel like a sort of "recovery" episode was warranted after the season 1 finale.

[The Good Doctor]

42 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

and because they introduced some much needed dimension to Aegon’s character. 

More on this, I think it might actually be kind of brilliant how this has been done.

Season 1 established Aegon as a delinquent twisted piece of shit, with implication that he was neglected and unloved by both his parents growing up and never prepared for responsibility. He never expected or wanted to be king. But when he got crowned, and the smallfolk start to cheer, we see a change in his demeanor, like this is the first time he’s ever gotten respect or adoration and he’s realizing that he likes it.

So in season 2, we get two of the first ever "positive" traits he has ever exhibited. He now seemingly cares about keeping the smallfolk happy, and he cares about making sure his son gets included and is part of what he does as a ruler. Both are directly informed by his upbringing.

The smallfolk are the only people to ever make Aegon not feel worthless. Sure, they’re his subjects and had no choice, but from his POV, their adoration for him is all he has, so it makes sense why he’d value them more than his own family or advisors.

And regarding his son, Viserys and Alicent typically neglected and ignored him at best. He was never raised to rule and is very conscious of how unprepared he is, so it also makes sense that he would want his son to be involved and present in his life from an early age. He’s just too dumb and inept to realize that it’s too early to do any good. 

Honestly, following this trend I think he will end up being much more strongly-written than Joffrey. 

[Celan]

Good episode. It's so refreshing not to have the pandering sexposition jokey bullshit of GoT and most other shows.

I agree about Aegon, though I suspect we will see a Joffrey turn. GRRM said that Joffrey is what happens when you give a maladjusted 14 year-old ultimate power. 

In my rewatch I had started paying attention to Helaena more. Her prophecies are downright sinister. I know she gets a bad end, though I don't remember specifics. 

[Celan]

Was that Ice on Cregan Stark's back?

It's interesting that in 200 years, the Starks already forgot/ neglected the custom of sending 1 out of 10 to the Wall at the start of winter. Even they seem to have discounted the reality of the Others.

Nice tidbit that dragons refused to go past the Wall. Meanwhile GoT- "let's just send Jon beyond the Wall to get an Other for lulz and have Dany rescue him/ lose a dragon."

[Celan]

That shipwright that Corlys is talking to... is that his bastard brother or something? There seemed to be more between them than lord/ subject.

"Arm the scorpion!" Meanwhile GoT: Let's pretend Qyburn came up with the idea of scorpions and present it as some big reveal.

[Celan]

Subtle how they do a Chekhov's ratcatcher at the beginning, and also introduce Jahaerys as heir as well as showing that even Aegon can't tell his children apart.

Also shows how the Lannisters have been lackeys to the throne, something that ground Tywin's gears under Aerys and Robert.

I also liked the scene with Jace returning. I always felt sorry for those boys not being able to acknowledge or mourn their father and always feeling insecure in their position due to choices their mother made.

[The Good Doctor]

7 hours ago, Celan said:

I agree about Aegon, though I suspect we will see a Joffrey turn. GRRM said that Joffrey is what happens when you give a maladjusted 14 year-old ultimate power. 

Oh yeah. He’s done Joffrey-level stuff already. I just think he seems like a better written version of the concept so far, with his character traits, both good and bad, resulting from very specific failures in his upbringing.

He also feels a little more "human" to me, if that makes sense. Like the scene of him getting drunk with his buddies is not something you’d ever get with psycho Joffrey. He feels more like a product of really bad upbringing while Joff felt sick in the head from birth.

I do think it will be interesting if this awful person ends up as one of the more popular kings among the smallfolk, not because he’s got an altruistic heart, but because he is so starved for affection by his family that he turns to his subjects for it instead, making unreasonable promises and draining the crown’s coffers just to buy the love he never had. That’s the reading I had of how he enjoyed seeing the goat herder’s pleasure at being told he could have his animals replenished. **

7 hours ago, Celan said:

Was that Ice on Cregan Stark's back?

That was definitely Ice, yeah. You could tell they were going all out with how "Stark" Cregan was, carrying Ice like it’s his personal blade rather than just ceremonial, sending men to the Wall every winter, introduced with a speech about oathkeeping, etc. He even sent 2,000 well honed greybeards in place of a normal army to maintain his duty to protecting the North, like one of those "hunts" the Northmen are said to take on in the books.

I really liked this glimpse of Cregan. Doubt we see much more of him for a while, but I am excited for when we do.
 

**Future spoilers from the book, regarding Aegon and the smallfolk

 

I think this could also play into how the show depicts the smallfolk eventually storming the Dragonpits.

Rhaenys slaughtered hundreds of random innocents during her breakout without a care in the world, then immediately went and joined the Blacks. That’s a really bad look for them.

Shortly after, Aegon’s first public act as king was to extend a hand and try to present himself as a friend to the smallfolk. Genuine or not, that’s how he wants to be seen and I suspect that Clubfoot is gonna help him foster that image after booting Otto and becoming his Hand.

With how the two sides have been presented in the show so far, I could totally see the Blacks being viewed as the more tyrannical faction by many of the smallfolk. Enough so that Rhaenyra taking back Kings Landing could be the tipping point for inciting the riots.

[The Good Doctor]

Something I found funny. It’s often mentioned how difficult it is to sit the Iron Throne without cutting oneself, and that it’s treated as a sign of unworthiness when a king gets cut by it.

Meanwhile, here is Aegon drunkenly rolling around on it without a scratch.

The Prince that was Promised?

 

 

[The Good Doctor]

5 hours ago, Celan said:

That shipwright that Corlys is talking to... is that his bastard brother or something? There seemed to be more between them than lord/ subject.

"Arm the scorpion!" Meanwhile GoT: Let's pretend Qyburn came up with the idea of scorpions and present it as some big reveal.

I got that impression too. Not sure. My memory is hazy from the book and I am happy to keep it that way so there can still be some surprises.

And yeah, this show just seems intent on embarrassing late stage GoT at every turn.  Like you said about the dragons refusing to go north of the Wall, with a single line of dialogue, HotD made the threat of the North feel more menacing than GoT S8 could do with an entire undead invasion.
 

Another thing, I liked how they preserved the mystery of Daemon with relation to Blood and Cheese. While it did confirm that he’s the one who hired them, the scene cut short before we got to hear his exact instructions. Doubt we ever find out if he specifically ordered the death of the child or not. My money is on "yes". A son for a son.

[Celan]

Daemon should have disguised himself and done the deed himself.

[The Good Doctor]

41 minutes ago, Celan said:

Daemon should have disguised himself and done the deed himself.

Doubt Daemon could have snuck through like they did. Even with his +10 stealth hoodie, he’s very recognizable.  

Also would’ve been a big risk. A couple of nobodies getting caught is inconsequential, but Damon getting caught could cost the war.

[Celan]

7 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

Another thing, I liked how they preserved the mystery of Daemon with relation to Blood and Cheese. While it did confirm that he’s the one who hired them, the scene cut short before we got to hear his exact instructions. Doubt we ever find out if he specifically ordered the death of the child or not. My money is on "yes". A son for a son.

I didn't notice the first time that the rat catcher asks him what to do if they don't find Aemond and they never show his reply.

[The Good Doctor]

7 minutes ago, Celan said:

I didn't notice the first time that the rat catcher asks him what to do if they don't find Aemond and they never show his reply.

I can’t recall the exact instances but I’m pretty sure the show did this with Daemon at times in season 1 as well. Where it would allude to him doing something awful, but keep the details off-screen so we’re left wondering if/how he actually went through with it and how he felt about it.

Really adds to his chaotic roguishness. He’s a bad dude, but it’s hard to tell exactly to what degree.

[The Good Doctor]

@ColonelKillaBee You started HotD yet?  

New episode tonight. I’m excited. 

[The Good Doctor]

This time, it was Otto Hightower who stole the show for me. Him letting Aegon have it was cathartic.

That whole sequence and the later one with him and Alicent were fantastic. That man is everything the realm needs, correct almost every time, and yet completely rebuked for it. I loved the moment where he thought back on King Viserys and lamented losing such a patient and level-headed ruler. Glad to see Vizzy T getting some respect put on his name.  

The duel of the twins was intense. I love how quickly it became difficult to tell which one was which, and how it only became apparent whenever Rhaenyra would make a break for it and get interrupted.

Aegon the Dragoncock is consistently impressing as well. Not as a likable person, but just as a very unexpectedly well-written character. He’s just the epitome of someone being in over their head, and his insecurity is so tangible. Poor asshole has advisors tugging him in different directions, has no idea what to do, and constantly blunders the moment he tries to act on his own. And unlike Joffrey, is self-aware enough to recognize what a screwup he is. I feel like if Viserys was a great exploration of how an "unremarkable" leader can actually be a very good thing, then Aegon is the exploration of why exactly rule by inheritance can be a tragedy for everyone involved, even the monarch.

[The Good Doctor]

Also, Criston Cole sucks.  He’s been surprisingly consistent in his patheticness this season.

[Celan]

I love the little eyeroll Otto gives when Aegon tells him that "Criston has acted."  Shows that he started out as a comedic actor, I think.

Aegon's actor is definitely killing it. I noticed the moment he saw Helaena and literally fled from her without a word, and of course the last scene where his mother can't even comfort him. Aemond was also in the arms of a whore who looks like a rough-used version of his mother. When he returns and sees the open door and stolen coins, he knows that it would have been him if he had been there. All great and very subtle characterization. For being supposedly so soft-hearted, Alicent is a terrible mother. Goes to show that she was left without a mother and raised by someone using her for his political schemes.

The most remarkable thing about Criston's idiot plan is that it almost worked. I think Mysaria circled back and warned the other brother.

[The Good Doctor]

4 hours ago, Celan said:

For being supposedly so soft-hearted, Alicent is a terrible mother.

If it wasn’t obvious before, this episode drove it home with how she didn’t hesitate to make Helaena do the funeral, how Aemond went to the lap of a whore instead of her, and how she saw Aegon crying and just immediately ran off to bang Criston Cole instead of comforting him. Course, she had no mother and Otto was the same way to her, even in this episode he blew her off when she tried to confess to him. The Hightowers parallel the Lannisters in lots of ways, including bad parenting.

I didn’t know Otto was played by a comedic actor but it definitely shined through in that scene. His expression got a real laugh from me.  I love now he referred to their assassination plot as a "prank".

4 hours ago, Celan said:

The most remarkable thing about Criston's idiot plan is that it almost worked. I think Mysaria circled back and warned the other brother.

I’ll be honest, if I was Rhaenyra’s advisor I probably would’ve told her to kill Mysaria. She might be the most untrustworthy person in the entire show after Clubfoot, she knows too much, she has/had an affair with Daemon, is hostile and dodgy when questioned, and was the lynchpin behind multiple conspiracies including one that got a child killed and made the Blacks look like monsters. Being so nice wasn’t very smart or warranted, and it felt a little too convenient how well it happened to immediately work out in Rhaenyra’s favor.

I guess she recognized Mysaria as a victim of Daemon’s abuse and empathized, but still, that struck me as pretty foolish and lucky.

[Celan]

This will blow your mind

 

[The Good Doctor]

10 minutes ago, Celan said:

This will blow your mind

It took me five minutes to realize who that guy was. Yeah, wow, that did blow my mind.  

[Celan]

I liked the symbolism of Aegon destroying the mock-up of KL that Viserys labored so lovingly over. Mad King vibes.

Also big that Otto acknowledges that he doesn't believe Viserys actually told Alicent that Aegon should be king.

[Celan]

8 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

It took me five minutes to realize who that guy was. Yeah, wow, that did blow my mind.  

It blew my mind in reverse when I realized who Otto was.  

[The Good Doctor]

Yeah, lot of symbolism in how a kingdom built and maintained through years of love and patience got torn down in seconds by careless rage.

[Celan]

Just now, The Good Doctor said:

Yeah, lot of symbolism in how a kingdom built and maintained through years of love and patience got torn down in seconds by careless rage.

Extremely relevant to our own time.