The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: "Killing God" in the context of Elden Ring is no different from how Malekith splattered the Gloomeyed Queen; your founding a new age by supplanted in the old (In all endings.) That’s the case in every main ending except Ranni’s (and FF of course). In the analog of the Greater Will being "God" and the Elden Ring being the natural order established by said god, the changing of ages isn’t really so much a rebellion against the system as it is an attempt to take hold of it and steer the world straight in a chaotic time. Ranni’s ending is different because it outright opposes the god and system in its entirety. It is entirely mortal-centric, which sounds great to an atheist on a meta level, but in-universe, this is a world that explicitly isn’t dominated by mortals, and getting rid of a system that protects them from other, faaaaar worse entities, might not be a smart thing to do. Especially when you recently killed most the mortals who could even help protect things and then dipped out yourself. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 At the end of the day, is helping a chick who needs an army of simps to enact her goals really worth serving, lol. You may as well be top dog alone and tell that bitch to take a hike on her own if she wants to larp guardians of the galaxy. Like she fucking planned in the first place. 2 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Simping after the wrong Demigod, let me tell you. There's even a little bit of Shintoism and Buddhism sprinkled in (with how people are reincarnated at the roots of a heavenly tree) I'm not discounting how the Greater Will takes alot of aspects from the Old Testament, but I think people might be (in-universe too) mischaracterizing the Greater Will. I still proscribe to the theory that it's an Outer God (which represent cosmic principles and are almost lovecraftian); it sends an angel, but that angel is a black cosmic sludge-dragon that's sinister and alien. Rather then person, it wears a face that's unrecognizable. It ascends and directly empowers people to act as it's godly proxies. (Marika and her Elden Lord). There's also the fact it appointed it's order upon an existing world. God Created the world from nothing. The Outer Will created, but it built ontop of the One Will ; the life of the crucible that existed together as primordial sludge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 The only good part of that ending for me is that as an introvert lol, skipping town and running off into the stars together for a thousand years sounds heavenly. Minus the hot topic nonsense. 1 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Because she is looking at the world, sees that it has meaning and that there are gods with a plan for said world and everyone in it, and deciding that she will be rid of it all and make all, meaningless. Yep. Which can only be argued as just if you can demonstrably prove that these gods and the meaning they provide are worse than an absence of both. That is a tall order, especially coming from Ranni who is not characterized as being particularly wise. Smart and powerful, sure, but not wise. She does a worse job of justifying her end-goals than Golden Mask, a guy who literally never speaks. 2 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: At the end of the day, is helping a chick who needs an army of simps to enact her goals really worth serving, lol. You may as well be top dog alone and tell that bitch to take a hike on her own if she wants to larp guardians of the galaxy. Like she fucking planned in the first place. Especially when Elden Lord can get all the bitches anyway. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Simping after the wrong Demigod, let me tell you. There's even a little bit of Shintoism and Buddhism sprinkled in (with how people are reincarnated at the roots of a heavenly tree) I'm not discounting how the Greater Will takes alot of aspects from the Old Testament, but I think people might be (in-universe too) mischaracterizing the Greater Will. I still proscribe to the theory that it's an Outer God (which represent cosmic principles and are almost lovecraftian); it sends an angel, but that angel is a black cosmic sludge-dragon that's sinister and alien. Rather then person, it wears a face that's unrecognizable. It ascends and directly empowers people to act as it's godly proxies. (Marika and her Elden Lord). There's also the fact it appointed it's order upon an existing world. God Created the world from nothing. The Outer Will created, but it built ontop of the One Will ; the life of the crucible that existed together as primordial sludge. I dont think it was ever in doubt that the greater will was an outer god, especially since before they showed up all there was, was the world that derived from the crucible "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 And I can tell you, Im in no rush to attribute christian mythology to the Greater Will. Way too flawed for my tastes to be considered even remotely similar to the machinations of Yahwe Though yes the symbolism is obvious in some cases, like Marika on the cross (rune), but that is not selfless sacrifice like Jesus, even though its painted as such initially. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Come-on guys, could someone so loathsome own so many of her own action figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Come-on guys, could someone so loathsome own so many of her own action figures Ngl she looks like a loathsome spiteful bitch to me and judging from what she did to the fingers, I’d say she is lol Melina tho <3 3 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Lol my phone made Melina Melani "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: And I can tell you, Im in no rush to attribute christian mythology to the Greater Will. Me neither. More like I try to structure my decisions based on Christian sensibilities within the context of a more flawed system with more flawed gods. Like the willingness to recognize that I don’t have the full picture (and not just because this is a From game ). It is easy to step back and claim to judge a "higher" being with limited scope and knowledge. That’s the whole Ranni argument. She is ignorant to much, yet she is ready to upend everything on the belief that she knows better than a deity who is of an unfathomably higher "gradient" of existence than herself. To me, that rings of similar blind arrogance to a teenager who mopes at the most surface level "injustices" of God (by their judgement) without even attempting to understanding the why of it. The Greater Will itself is very remote. We don’t know its true or full desires, or if it even definitely has any. Most of what we have are proxies and servants, who bring their own flaws to the table that are more the source of the system’s flaws than the system itself inherently being a problem. Like the hatred against the Misbegotten, that wasn’t the Greater Will, that was Marika, who came to regret many of her youthful decisions later in life. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: Come-on guys, could someone so loathsome own so many of her own action figures Simps exist, so yes. Ranni was created in a lab to perfectly embody all the traits that appeal to an edgy atheist who watches too much of the wrong anime. Even down to the part where she all but blushes while pretending to play tough and hard-to-get. I don’t even watch anime and I’ve seen this a hundred times. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Melina tho <3 Too bad she gotta die. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 53 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Too bad she gotta die. *This starts playing in the background* 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 As for Ranni, I think you guys are brushing in a little bit of an unfair brush stroke. I do think she's selfish, manipulative, and ruthless (Look at Godwyn, you'd think she could have used the child molester brother) but your forgetting Caria was basically forced to copulate at knifepoint, and because her mother was seduced by a hermaphrodite and then tossed aside. I think her motives are centered on the fact she believes her birthright, and the birthright of Caria was taken from her family. You are also forgetting one fact; this little atheist has a God. Mind you, I don't think she directly worships it, but she knows she's replacing the Outer Will's dominion over the Lands Between with it. Again, she's prioritizing the legacy of Caria (which one hundred percent includes herself) Her actions - while selfishly motivated -I don't quite think is a tantrum in the way your describing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 The pantheon that the Golden Order proscribes to is fucking unconventional at the very least though. You have the Greater Will at the very top, Marika and her Elden Lord, the Demigods (which are more like lesser Gods) and you have all these "legally mandated" religions that you can have as a side thing; like the Leydell Dragon-Cult and the Carians faith in the Dark Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: but your forgetting Caria was basically forced to copulate at knifepoint "I had it hard" is rarely a good justification for doing something horrible. That’s why it’s so often a villain motive in media. And frankly, when it comes to suffering, the pampered princess and her clique of star-gazing, wine-sipping, castle dwellers can get in line. 29 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: You are also forgetting one fact; this little atheist has a God. We did say that she appeals to real world "edgy atheists", not that she is literally one herself. 26 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: The pantheon that the Golden Order proscribes to is fucking unconventional at the very least though. You have the Greater Will at the very top, Marika and her Elden Lord, the Demigods (which are more like lesser Gods) and you have all these "legally mandated" religions that you can have as a side thing; like the Leydell Dragon-Cult and the Carians faith in the Dark Moon. So a singular "greater than everything" god on top, followed by a set of otherworldly agents (the Fingers) who deliver his will, followed by powerful-but-lesser worldly agents who are the custodians of the world and his will -sometimes doing good and sometimes abusing their power to their own ends. That’s not unconventional, that’s the Catholic Church. Except the Angels are Fingers, and the Saints papacy get to have superpowers. Even the absorption or allowance of foreign or heretical religions like the dragon followers tracks. See "semina verbi" in Catholicism, used to adopt pagan customs as an excuse to bring them into the fold. It’s why stuff like Mexico’s Day of the Dead or depictions of the Savior as a literal sword-‘n-shield warrior exist. Instead of a hard conversion, it is a soft one in which the "Order" subtly adopts what were once viewed as heathen practices to recruit pagan peoples with minimal conflict. 1 2 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Even the absorption or allowance of foreign or heretical religions like the dragon followers tracks. See "semina verbi" in Catholicism, used to adopt pagan customs as an excuse to bring them into the fold. It’s why stuff like Mexico’s Day of the Dead or depictions of the Savior as a literal sword-‘n-shield warrior exist. Instead of a hard conversion, it is a soft one in which the "Order" subtly adopts what were once viewed as heathen practices to recruit pagan peoples with minimal conflict. There certainly similar , but I think the "rural beliefs that have Pagan roots being disguised as Christian" are a little removed from physical Churches dedicated to physical, flying reptiles and stone Dragon idols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 19 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: There certainly similar , but I think the "rural beliefs that have Pagan roots being disguised as Christian" are a little removed from physical Churches dedicated to physical, flying reptiles and stone Dragon idols. Sure, it’s more fantastical in a world with literal flying reptiles and such. But the principle is the same. Church starts out by saying "this is heresy", but can’t get pagan locals to care, so church switches to saying "this is… okay, you’re just missing the Christian parts". With dragons, it’s extreme but the same. The Golden Order switched to arguing that the dragon cult weren’t wrong for following dragons, but rather that following dragons is totally compatible with the Golden Order, so they might as well join up and recognize the awesomeness of Marika’s teachings. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 I'm putting to rest all theories about Nameless King in Elden Ring, he fucking slaps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 My two cents on the whole Ranni atheist thing is that people are dumb, and Balrog's right on the money. Besides both Ranni and Rennala have witnessed a mysterious deity in the moon. Aside from some mystery on how different the Dark Moon is from the Full Moon, personally think it's the same entity. Ranni supplants the Erdtree in favor of the Dark Moon, to which she and the Elden Lord go to. The moon deity is so enigmatic that there's nothing to be known about it, might be a cosmic force rather than a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: I'm putting to rest all theories about Nameless King in Elden Ring, he fucking slaps "The Nameless King was once a dragon-slaying god of war, before he sacrificed everything to ally himself with the ancient dragons." The dude survived pretty much to the end of the world and the death of his pantheon He's so powerful his realm is the only place with a real sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: The dude survived pretty much to the end of the world and the death of his pantheon He's so powerful his realm is the only place with a real sun Except for the times when the game decides to glitch and shroud Archdragon Peek in darkness. Which ngl looks way cooler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 Just now, TheCzarsHussar said: My two cents on the whole Ranni atheist thing is that people are dumb, and Balrog's right on the money. Besides both Ranni and Rennala have witnessed a mysterious deity in the moon. Aside from some mystery on how different the Dark Moon is from the Full Moon, personally think it's the same entity. Ranni supplants the Erdtree in favor of the Dark Moon, to which she and the Elden Lord go to. The moon deity is so enigmatic that there's nothing to be known about it, might be a cosmic force rather than a god. I feel like yall are missing the point being made. It’s not that Ranni is an atheist, it’s that the rebellion she is launching -intent on removing the mainstream religion and literally sending away any influence of the world’s central divine being- is an appealing notion to modern atheists. What she plans on replacing that with, be it nothing, an enigmatic cosmic force, or a different god who isn’t yet mainstream, is irrelevant to that fact. But because the Dark Moon is so damn mysterious, and we are given so little reason to buy into it as a positive change, the argument against her still stands. It’s replacing an Order that works for a dice roll that could result in… nothing… or a new order… or a greater oppression than before… or absolute chaos… or the literal end of the world. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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