BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: I dunno, the Golden Order seems to be shaped as much by outsiders as they are by it. Sorcerer Rogier describes it as astonishingly pliable, saying that Raya Lucaria’s heretical traditions ended up getting accepted and adopted into the Golden Order. In the words of Turtle Pope: "Heresy is not native to the world; it is but a contrivance." The telescope says the true old ways of the Carian Starseekers basically ended when the Golden Order took charge, so I assume it got super-watered down. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: She couldn’t have had a crown back then because she didn’t yet exist. Her father is Radagon. She would’ve been conceived after his and Rennala’s marriage. A destiny as a pure lineage of Carian royalty broken then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: The telescope says the true old ways of the Carian Starseekers basically ended when the Golden Order took charge, so I assume it got super-watered down. I assumed that particular element would’ve been Radahn’s doing, seeing as how he’s the one who literally locked the stars in place. Which is funny because he is a native son of Liurnia. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Back before I fully engrossed myself in the lore, I thought for certain the Erdtree and Golden Order were far more sinister then they let on. And while the Golden Order is fundamentally flawed as Goldmask discovered, it's also legitimately beneficial for humanity. It becomes much harder to justify the benefits of the other endings to the Lands Between when you realize that whatever the true intentions of the Greater Will, it is the embodiment of order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: A destiny as a pure lineage of Carian royalty broken then Can’t blame the Golden Order for the Carian Queen’s failure to keep her pants on. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I also think the Astrologers were on the Golden Order's shit list for being on good terms with the Fire Giants. Considering they shared the mountaintops with them, and no mention of conflict with said giants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Back before I fully engrossed myself in the lore, I thought for certain the Erdtree and Golden Order were far more sinister then they let on. And while the Golden Order is fundamentally flawed as Goldmask discovered, it's also legitimately beneficial for humanity. It becomes much harder to justify the benefits of the other endings to the Lands Between when you realize that whatever the true intentions of the Greater Will, it is the embodiment of order. https://lotrscrapbook.bookloaf.net/ref/letters_evil.html Read this if you believe order is always inherently good. They are though There almost parasitic in a way. And that's not getting into what they do to Omens, the Travelers, and the Beastmen. They ARE benevolent to those who live inside grace...but for those who don't I'm not blaming them for being an Imperialistic Empire that oppresses and kills those who get in it's way, because that's pretty much everyone in this kind of setting With all the bodies on it's hands, there's no moral highground to take. *Looks around to see if anyones here* That's why we must TEAR IT ALL DOWN. All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again. MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Just now, TheCzarsHussar said: Back before I fully engrossed myself in the lore, I thought for certain the Erdtree and Golden Order were far more sinister then they let on. And while the Golden Order is fundamentally flawed as Goldmask discovered, it's also legitimately beneficial for humanity. It becomes much harder to justify the benefits of the other endings to the Lands Between when you realize that whatever the true intentions of the Greater Will, it is the embodiment of order. That was more or less my takeaway as well. The Golden Order is flawed but pliable and open to being improved. Every alternative is just a different level of extreme chaos. I could see arguments for Miquella if he had an ending, but nobody else even proposes an alternative that’s remotely viable. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 For me there was a dozen moments in relation to the Golden Order that made a certain...Hunter come to mind ""Not a pretty sight, is it? The true face of the blood-worshiping, beast-purging Healing Church." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: https://lotrscrapbook.bookloaf.net/ref/letters_evil.html Read this if you believe order is always inherently good. They are though There almost parasitic in a way. And that's not getting into what they do to Omens, the Travelers, and the Beastmen. They ARE benevolent to those who live inside grace...but for those who don't I'm not blaming them for being an Imperialistic Empire that oppresses and kills those who get in it's way, because that's pretty much everyone in this kind of setting With all the bodies on it's hands, there's no moral highground to take. *Looks around to see if anyones here* Hide contents That's why we must TEAR IT ALL DOWN. All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again. MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD Tarnished Archeologist's videos on the Lands Between's ancient history has definitely skewed my interpretation on the Erdtree. I used to have the belief that the Crucible and Erdtree was a parasite of the Great Tree. But now I've been converted to the line of thought that the Crucible and all the rival branchings sprung up from the trunk of the destroyed Great Tree. Possibly even destroyed by the Fire Giants. The Erdtree and Golden Order are by no means a benevolent and loving institution. There's absolutely no place for such things to the others, the outsiders when you are the embodiment of order. It either destroyed or converted everything that ever opposed it until a very very very brief time of unending splendor and abundance flowed from the land. Then the Erdtree fucking burnt and all that's left is an illusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: That was more or less my takeaway as well. The Golden Order is flawed but pliable and open to being improved. Every alternative is just a different level of extreme chaos. I could see arguments for Miquella if he had an ending, but nobody else even proposes an alternative that’s remotely viable. In both cut content and some of the things Tarnished Archeologist touched on, there appeared to have been an intended transition of power from Marika to Miquella. That she knowingly desired s replacement for the established order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: They are though There almost parasitic in a way. And that's not getting into what they do to Omens, the Travelers, and the Beastmen. They ARE benevolent to those who live inside grace...but for those who don't Parasites only exist to drain the resources of their hosts. I don’t see how that’s what’s happening here. Many were persecuted, sure. But many others thrived, and the Golden Order was always changing and improving, letting more in, taking good and destroying bad. Rogier, Turtle Pope, most Tarnished, presumably Godfrey, and even the great Kenneth Haight all suggest that room can be made within the Golden Order for those who were wronged. It just takes time, effort, and sacrifice in order to fix it (which can, through extreme efforts, produce a Mending Rune). Despite the major flaws and how long they take to deal with, I still think that sounds better than throwing the world into a war-torn hellscape like Ranni did, all for the sake of tearing down all institutions. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: That she knowingly desired s replacement for the established order. Even in-game, there are lines that suggest she moved away from her dogmatism later in life. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Here's a question for you nerds. Do you think Ranni anticipated Marika destroying the Elden Ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 8 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: For me there was a dozen moments in relation to the Golden Order that made a certain...Hunter come to mind ""Not a pretty sight, is it? The true face of the blood-worshiping, beast-purging Healing Church." The Golden Order is at least good for those who are adherent to it. The Healing Church literally destroyed everything and everyone in its folly. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Parasites only exist to drain the resources of their hosts. I don’t see how that’s what’s happening here. Many were persecuted, sure. But many others thrived, and the Golden Order was always changing and improving, letting more in, taking good and destroying bad. Rogier, Turtle Pope, most Tarnished, presumably Godfrey, and even the great Kenneth Haight all suggest that room can be made within the Golden Order for those who were wronged. It just takes time, effort, and sacrifice in order to fix it (which can, through extreme efforts, produce a Mending Rune). Despite the major flaws and how long they take to deal with, I still think that sounds better than throwing the world into a war-torn hellscape like Ranni did, all for the sake of tearing down all institutions. Like sealing an entire ethnic group of people in a secret underground chamber to an eternity of agony just for not wanting to be part of it, and cause such an influx of nightmarish suffering and pain, they call upon anything to listen to their pleas...and in the darkness for something to actually listen What was the point of that? I saw we should just let Mohg rule. Why vote for the lesser evil He'd probably be a pretty efficient ruler. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Here's a question for you nerds. Do you think Ranni anticipated Marika destroying the Elden Ring? I don’t think anybody did, personally. Kinda like how Sauron wasn’t ready for the Fellowship’s plan in LotR because neither he nor anybody outside the secret council ever dreamed that someone would actually want to destroy the Ring instead of using it. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: Reveal hidden contents Like sealing an entire ethnic group of people in a secret underground chamber to an eternity of agony just for not wanting to be part of it, and cause such an influx of nightmarish suffering and pain, they call upon anything to listen to their pleas...and in the darkness for something to actually listen What was the point of that? I saw we should just let Mohg rule. Why vote for the lesser evil He'd probably be a pretty efficient ruler. Real talk. What the fuck would Lord Mohg’s empire even look like? * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: Hide contents Like sealing an entire ethnic group of people in a secret underground chamber to an eternity of agony just for not wanting to be part of it, and cause such an influx of nightmarish suffering and pain, they call upon anything to listen to their pleas...and in the darkness for something to actually listen What was the point of that? I saw we should just let Mohg rule. Why vote for the lesser evil He'd probably be a pretty efficient ruler. Have you seen his subjects? That'd be a horrifying state of living hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Just now, TheCzarsHussar said: Have you seen his subjects? That'd be a horrifying state of living hell. Are they like that because that’s how he wants the world to be, or are they like that because he needed strong soldiers? * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Have you seen his subjects? That'd be a horrifying state of living hell. I don't know, Mohg seems actually quite pragmatic. Like how he's engaged in a pact with his brothers to prevent you know what from destroying his land before he can ruler and conquer it. 3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Real talk. What the fuck would Lord Mohg’s empire even look like? Weird fucking statues of this everywhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Just now, The Good Doctor said: Real talk. What the fuck would Lord Mohg’s empire even look like? A Theocracy no doubt, replacing the worship of the Erdtree with the Formless Mother. Mohg wouldn't technically be the ruler of this empire, but would in practice be. A really twisted mirror of how the Elden Lord is subordinate to Marika, as a consort. The nobility is already established, who are Omens as seen by their horns. But Tarnished can be elevated as shown by the two invaders in the nobility 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: Are they like that because that’s how he wants the world to be, or are they like that because he needed strong soldiers? I'm talking about the zombie-like people roaming around his palace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: I don't know, Mohg seems actually quite pragmatic. Hide contents Like how he's engaged in a pact with his brothers to prevent you know what from destroying his land before he can ruler and conquer it. Hide contents Weird fucking statues of this everywhere I find it hilarious how he speaks all soft and lovingly to Miquella, but then gets all deep and raspy voices when speaking to the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I'm not saying it wouldn't be a brutal Imperialistic theocracy underneath the Blood Cult, but I don't know, I don't think it would be that far removed from what id' imagine a normal looking one to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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